Creating a High-Performing, Innovative Culture with JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf

Inside This Episode

• Finding Your Road Map Out of Uncertainty
• Developing Flexibility and Agility
• Harnessing the Power of Humility
• Why Previous Successes Can Hold Us Back
• A Simple Strategy to Create an Innovative Culture
• What it Really Takes to Develop Your Team
• The Real Cost of Untrained Managers
• Collaborative Leadership
• The Raw Ingredients of Effective Decision-Making
• Creating Boundaries to Stay in the Flow
• How to Unplug to Recharge

John Ryan
You're listening to key conversations for leaders. This is episode number 38. Welcome, everybody. In today's episode, we'll be talking about creating a high performing innovative culture. With JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf, we'll be discussing why previous successes can hold us back what it really takes to develop your team, the real cost of untrained managers in creating boundaries to stay in the flow and much, much more.

John Ryan 0:27
Leadership is about vision. It's about creating a vision and sharing that vision with others in a way that inspires them to walk with you towards its fulfillment. Along the way, leaders encourage, motivate, guide and even challenge people to bring their best each and every day. And it's all done through conversations. That's what this show is about better conversations for better leaders.

John Ryan 0:50
Hey, everyone, and welcome to key conversations for leaders. I'm your host John Ryan. And today we have a very special guest JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf, JoAnn is the founder of manage global a business advisory leadership management consulting firm. Over the last few years, she has been recognized as a global influencer, being named to list such as top 100 most inclusive HR influencers, top 50 Global HR influencers, to name a few. She's also been quoted or featured in a variety of media, such as NBC News, Huffington Post, Harvard Business Review, among others, she is the offer author of several books, including her most recent, the human quotient, the most potent force for your business success, and Show Me The Money solving the mystery of ROI to unlock profits, and increase company value. Welcome to the show. JoAnn.

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 1:36
Thank you, john, it is awesome to be with you.

John Ryan 1:39
Thank you. You know, I know you have extensive, you know, experience in industry and working with leaders. How do you Because right now, we are certainly facing a whole bunch of uncertainty on a number of fronts. How do you get started and working with leaders to help them you know, face uncertainty and create more certainty for themselves and their teams?

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 1:59
Yeah, it's really it's really three prong first thing is I help them identify what is still certain. And what and I know that sounds odd, what is still certain is the fact that we're human beings, we have human needs, relationships matter. And those things don't change. I was doing an emotional intelligence webinar with a client yesterday for leaders. And we were talking about the fact that the leaders who have the the, the relationships that are not the best will have the hardest time with remote leadership. So relationships, caring, showing that you care, addressing someone's heart and spirit in mind, those things never change. You know, and so those human names you can be anchored to, with your family life and with your colleagues and friends. And so hold on to what matters because our values, what matters most to us that has that doesn't change, even with COVID.

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 3:00
On the practical side, you know, once that is, you know, taken into account, then it is, okay, now what do I need to keep in mind to stay connected to keep moving the ball forward. And so with my clients, I provide them a process and a roadmap. In fact, you know, in our EQ session yesterday, it was, I have something called a keep on track map. And literally, if you have a process, and you have a checklist in a map, it helps you stay focused, because we're all over the place with this integrated lifestyle many of our leaders have, because natural boundaries of driving, commuting, being on site, those are natural boundaries, they don't exist anymore. So now you have to create boundaries at home or in different locations. And so that takes commitment, but also a defined process and a plan. And so we work with just basically a roadmap, a roadmap that they can follow a checklist that they can use. So if you get off course the Get your roadmap and go Okay, now where was I? And that's a way to help them in a practical sense as well.

John Ryan 4:04
I love that. So start with recognizing you're human, we all have needs, and that it's okay kind of something that eases the tension right from the get go. And not having to control everything, but just focus on the we'll get through this together. And to help us get through this together, we're going to create a roadmap so that if we get lost if we get pulled in a different direction that we can get back on that course as quickly as you possibly can.

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 4:28
Yeah, in fact, that roadmap and when my clients of the other day, one of the things I love about this roadmap is it keeps me focused. Like I keep having to like part of the roadmap, we use a very simple tool called the bullseye. Like literally, it's a bull's eye you use for a target. And so it's like now, so when I'm having a conversation with clients say now was this the yellow or is this in the red or is this in the blue? Just Oh yeah, that's really a red it's not really the yellow. So you know, once we identify the yellows, that's part of the roadmap to stay focused, stay on track, because there's so many Many things going on too. So using not only the plan, but also really tactical practical tools is really helpful. So,

John Ryan 5:08
you know, like any journey, there's going to be obstacles and things that we don't plan for on that roadmap. And it sounds like the bullseye strategy is going to help you get refocused on that. How does creativity come into place? I know you do a lot of work with Creative Leadership, and how does creativity come into play from a leadership perspective and overcoming those obstacles?

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 5:27
Yeah, I, you know, I love that question. Because creativity is like one of my most favorite themes in the whole wide world. Because creativity, first of all, there's a lot of misunderstandings about it. Because you know, most people think that you have to be a certain kind of discipline to be considered creative. But creative thinking is very fundamental to who we are, as human beings, every single person is creative in some way. Our kids are creative, and getting us to do stuff we don't want to do. You know, it is. So it's basically just thinking differently. It's bringing being a problem solver. It's, you know, it's on a fundamental level, we are all creative.

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 6:04
So what creative creative thinking does in a disciplined way is help us be flexible, in Agile in our thinking. So one of my favorite quotes, in the creative process from Albert Einstein is, it's really difficult to solve problems at the same level of thinking at which we arrived at them, which a lot of leaders do. And so what creative thinking does is it helps us know, and understand how our brain can function differently, broader, more dimensionally, so we don't get stuck, we don't feel trapped. We're not trying to solve new problems with old thinking. And it also helps us be humble, collaborative. And it also is an entree into diversity and inclusion. Because one of the elements of being a more creative thinker, is being a more diverse thinker. The broader resources that you have to draw from will actually help your ideation and help you come up with more ideas. I say in my inside, say my workshops, many people are taught to think from a puddle instead of thinking from a reservoir.

John Ryan 7:17
Hmm. So that analogy the reservoir is, is what how would you describe that?

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 7:24
That is our ability to know that we can work with our whole brains, I call it whole brain thinking, a conscious mind, or subconscious mind, and also to our right brain, in our left brain, and also to take into account that everything in our life, the sum total of our life experience is a reservoir. You know, you can get an idea from something you did as a kid for something that could actually create a solution in your company right now. would would you think of that? Would you think that that was a viable resource? Or let's go out to the park and do some do some ideation? Or let's go fly fishing, and do some ideation? What does that have to do with chemistry? What does that have to do with the next marketing idea what you know, the more you nor diverse, let's take a road trip, let's go to a museum, the everything we do, has an opportunity to spark ideas, and to do combining arranging old things in a new way. Or sparking or what I call sparking, taking something that is new to us and sparking something that's even newer to us. Okay, here's a great example, john. Toothpaste. I use this example in my workshops. Okay, how many? How many variations of toothpaste and or toothpaste containers have we had over the course of our lifetime? Now, I know you're younger than I am. But lifetime, how many variations?

John Ryan 8:53
Tons, like, I don't know, dozens? Yeah. You wouldn't think now that now that you put that in into, you know, the forefront of my consciousness? Yeah, you wouldn't think there would be so many varieties and dispensary's and all those sorts of things as well. Yeah.

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 9:05
Right. And you know what each of those is a one simple tweak. That is a million that is millions of dollars in a revenue stream. Trust me on this, I am sure that there have been many counseling dollars saved, because a couple bought a stand up dispenser versus having to argue over how to roll the tube. Wow. In a toothpaste, yeah, you know, or mint, or, you know, mouthwash or the kids or the stripes, or the fun. I mean, and it's one tweak from one product. That's amazing.

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 9:43
So with that analogy, then you can take you know, creative thinking on just about anything to improve and build a better, better mousetrap. And the way to do that is to get out of the puddle and get into the reservoir, which I think can we also include that to be the diversity The group that we're working with, okay, yeah, I have my, on my blog, I have an interest very interesting. Well, I actually wrote it for AST, or back in the day when I was AST. Now it's ATD is innovation and diversity is the power couple. Because it is it is with diversity.

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 10:20
And see that's the challenge with creativity in the workplace, or creative thinking in the workplace is creativity has to happen when you are accepting something different. That's why I added the quality of humility. Because we have to agree that not everything is sourced from me that we see the world as we are not necessarily as it is. And that you've got to be able to get comfortable with things that are different. So the challenge with diversity in workplaces, hey, I want you to be innovative, I want you to be creative, but hey, don't be that different than me. Because that makes me feel uncomfortable. So, you know, part of being a leader and creative thinking is, I'm going to be comfortable with being uncomfortable. And I'm going to be accepting of diverse thinking, but also how you look, how you wear your hair, and how you, you know, all those things are discomforting to some people. So talking about getting out of your comfort zone, it is volunteering, to move yourself out of your comfort zone. So that you can get comfortable with different kinds of things. Because that's where the really great creative ideas reside. And they can spark your experience against someone else's experience. And that combining can create something new and beautiful and unique.

John Ryan 11:51
So forcing ourselves to get into an uncomfortable position to challenge our own thinking, our comfort zone and to create an openness to to different sounds like that's part of the prerequisites for creating a creative culture. Are there any other major blocks, I'd imagine, you know, fear of making mistakes would be on an individualistic basic, another thing that prevents people from trying things that are quote, unquote, out of the box,

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 12:17
Right, that and that and also to unconscious bias. And it is a bias toward and this is interesting, you know, one of my favorite quotes is good as the enemy of great by Jim Collins, but from the book Good to Great. It, you know, it's really funny, john, our previous success can actually be a roadblock to new innovation. You know, not only just our ego, like, Okay, I've got a risk, this may not work. You know, that's why we talk about testing, low risk ideas, I mean, testing ideas in a real low risk environment, that the beauty of ideation is once you test, what do you get more ideas? You know, so that's, it's an ideation cycle. So you know, it's so the roadblock is fear of failure, instead of seeing it as a process improvement, or ongoing ideation process.

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 13:08
It's an all or nothing. It is previous successes, that block our ability to take a risk. It is, you know, our ego. And so it is an unconscious bias towards here's another thing very common in in corporate America. Well, that didn't work before. Well, that before was a different context, in a different era, a different group of people. Now, it could, you know, the same thing that was tried before could actually work this time. You know, but again, it's it is our thinking, our bias, our prejudices, all those things, can be roadblocks to creative thinking, you know, it's so funny, you know that another corporate buzzword of agility? That's what agile thinking is the ability to bounce around to be flexible, to change on a dime, to go with something new. That's all part of the creative process.

John Ryan 14:05
Where would you recommend leaders to start to bring these ideas in of creating create creativity, a culture of creativity, innovation, openness, and, and being okay, to the innovative process, as you said?

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 14:18
Well, I think one simple thing to do is that in each staff meeting, do a creative exercise. And I love starting simple. And you know what, what I love about a lot of things you can do, they're free. I mean, like literally you don't have to bring in a costly consultant. To know that all you have to do is integrate something very simple as creative as buy a book on Amazon or get one in the library. And, by the way, there's so much free stuff on the internet or YouTube. Just start introducing creative thinking by doing creative exercises in every staff meeting. So what does that introduce it? There's such a ripple effect, just that commitment. I mean, just a five minute exercise. Imagine doing that consistently over a period of time. You're saying, hey, let's learn to think differently, hey, let's learn. You're creating a learning a learning culture, an innovation culture, a creative thinking culture, a collaborative culture, we're all in this together, each person's idea and thinking is valuable. So what does that do buying the team increased morale. You know, it's a really, there's so many cool ripple effects to just doing that one simple event consistently.

John Ryan 15:37
It sounds so simple, right? So it's interrupting the pattern interrupting the status quo, not being afraid to disrupt your own past success. And in creating a culture because it's not just putting the word creativity on your values list that makes a difference, it's actually embodying it. So really appreciate that, those operational ideas and how to actually bring that in on a simple way to do it on a budget. You know, another thing that comes up I think, for a lot of companies that might be budgetary related, is, you know, they'll promote someone from, from a position of maybe a technician to a position of management, and they get the promotion without necessarily the additional training, and support and development to give them the resources they need to manage and lead others. What how do you how do you help with a situation? Or is that are they just kind of stuck be stuck in figuring out on their own?

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 16:28
Well, you know, what that is so common, that it's been common for years. This is like my heart ache in our industry, john, is people being promoted without any help. And the lack of creative career pathing, I can't tell you the number of conversations I've had just on that in the past few weeks. And usually, the person that's promoted is someone who has a technical expertise. And the only way they can make more money, or expand their career portfolio is by becoming a manager, I wrote a piece on LinkedIn A while back, when my 20 year anniversary, the seven things I recommend after 20 years of being in business, and one is don't promote people who don't want to be managers. And, and as if they NFA, if that is the only career path you have to offer, then you've got to provide training for them, I'm going to expand that development for them, so that they can emerge into an effective manager. And the only way to do that john is with conscious intention to and by the way, not a one and done course, as we say in the industry, learning about skill does not have skill make, you know, talking about a skill doesn't create a skill, a skill is a behavior. In fact, it's a mastered behavior. How is that developed over a period of time? So when I work with clients, we do developmental cycles, you know, I will do a learning event for a person, whatever client, which is we call a one and done but it's not done. It's just a learning event. But really, what we really want to do is develop people when someone says, Hey, send them to a training, what they're expecting, is long term sustained behavior change. That's not what they're gonna get.

John Ryan 18:21
So true, I'm so glad that you differentiate between training and development, because quite often, there are a lot lumped in together as if they're the same thing. And they're, they're absolutely not. And the expectation and the outcome of that training is not the same as long term, cyclical development and continuous so very, very good. Thank you for doing that. What does it look like I know you've also written down on it kind of relates to this topic is when you have your talent when you have your superstars on lockdown. What is that? exactly does that mean?

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 18:51
It is when you have people who are super talented and on any skill level, and you have managers that subvert their talent because they're ineffective. We're managers get in the way where you have a bully manager where you have managers untrained that don't know how to cultivate and leverage a channel. It's like basketball, one of my favorite sports. I had a nephew early on who was who play basketball not only in high school well ever since he was five and he had this emerging AAU career he wanted to do and what was interesting is is when he got to high school, he had a really bad high school coach. But he had a really good AAU coach.

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 19:39
And honestly John It was like looking at two different people play game. And the high school coach really just really was difficult did not know how to know how to really place the the team members in their best positions. And my nephew just did not play as well. With an optical coach and he wasn't, just wasn't a nice guy wasn't a, you know, his AAU coach, inspiring, motivating, real good training with you know, the the triple three, the, you know, the rebounding, the jump shots all that, you know, he was he was just like a superstar a you know, he ended up Come captain of the team in his in high school. And I think that was in spite of his coach, not because of his coach. Um, what a tweet I had out a couple weeks ago said, Would you hand the keys to a Jaguar to your teenage kid who doesn't know how to drive. That's what happens when you take your talent and turn them over, you spend all this money on recruiting, and you finally get in talent. And then you hand them over to a manager that has not been trained. JOHN has done even logical, that doesn't even make sense. And yet that happens every single day. And then we wonder why senior leaders at SES we get upset about it. I mean, it's just really mind boggling.

John Ryan 21:11
Obviously, there's a training development component to solving that issue. Is there also a case for decentralization of power and authority? Or or is that too far?

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 21:24
No, I mean, I think that if you're going to be effective, particularly when you're talking about locking down talent, you have to know. And I think it also too, is about reframing how we see leadership management. I was having this conversation yesterday with a client is, you know, what at and by the way, happens to be of client who has a lot of technical people who are getting promoted. Okay. And so there's a hang up about, I don't want to be a manager, I don't want to be a leader. What is that? How about we reframe, in each context, what it means to be an effective manager leader in a lot of times, particularly when you have high technicals, who are all experts, subject matter experts on a team, it's about facilitation.

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 22:04
It's about shared mutual accountability and responsibility. I'm facilitating result, I'm not your mama and your daddy, I'm not here to ward it over you. We're partners, and collaborators, and getting the targeted outcomes. That's a little bit of a different way of seeing leadership and management. And so and I see from a position I love that you say, decentralization, because I see it as power. It's about power and relationships. Mm hmm. And how that power is spread out how that power is utilized, in order for a team to function in a healthy way to get the best results.

John Ryan 22:44
I think that makes a lot of sense. Because you're also respecting the talent, the wisdom and experience in the room. I'm not your mom, not your dad. I'm just here to help facilitate and that lowers the bar. And it sounds like are you seeing a shift then and people's willingness to step up? And, and take on those leadership roles when you redefine it like that?

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 23:03
Yeah, I mean, they think they feel like the pressures off, you know, because one of the things have, in our minds lb elevated to a new role. And then then, particularly if someone got promoted, and you didn't, or whatever, it's people feel threatened. They think, you know, on a very human level, john, people were like, Okay, what are you gonna do with this power? Now? You used to be my buddy, my pal. And now you're my manager. Now, what? Can I trust you? How will you use that power?

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 23:29
You know, you have the power to fire me now, where before, you're just my colleague. So there's a lot of fear, there's a maturity that needs to take place, when someone is promoted, particularly from within, which is ideally what we like a lot of times. But with that comes some challenges to challenge the maturity of the team members and the manager is what will you be like now that you have power? You know, and how will we work together now? Well, if it's not about being over someone, but I'm walking with you, as we facilitate outcomes, that has a little bit of a different feel to it for both parties, and it feels more collaborative. And here's where it feels more safe, less fearful. Yeah,

John Ryan 24:14
I can, I can imagine it that it does. And I imagine you're an advocate for having those conversations up front, when you shift roles and responsibilities, that you got to set that tone from the beginning, because it's probably easier than trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube later on, I suppose to go back to that analogy. Exactly. True.

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 24:32
Yeah. And sometimes unfortunately, I get called in when the damage is already done. And so now we have to backtrack, we have do what we call team resets, where or reboots and sort of redefine what we know setting boundaries, having team values so that we can reset how we're going to treat each other and how we're going to work together and how we're going to collaborate. And what all that means is how we're going to build trust.

John Ryan 24:58
You know, just the course. Yeah, trust and respect, I think it's the core of really any relationship. You know, as a as a leader. decision making is an important skill developing trust developing, respecting in facilitating a productive atmosphere. And a safe atmosphere, as you said, is important. But so is decision making and making those hard decisions. What advice do you have for leaders who are struggling in making those bigger decisions?

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 25:24
You know, it's funny, I like literally just had a coaching call before our time together on this fear on this very thing, and have some great YouTube videos on that. The key to effective decision making is knowing what goes into making a decision and actually have a map a chart that folks can use. A lot of it john is related to how we think. And this is interesting how we feel. A lot of decisions are driven by a measure 00 to 10, on what we feel about something. And by the way, it's interesting, even people who think they're super logical, even when they're making a decision, recent brain studies have shown that the emotional parts of the brain still light up, even when you think you're making a logical decision.

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 26:10
So emotions are always involved in decision making. And so understanding effect, I encourage folks to actually create a decision making journal, you know, no, that's not a real big deal. Because sometimes people who have journaling, they're like, Oh, I got journals, this is all it really just charting down and just kind of tracking what you're making decision, why you made it, and what was feeling what were the drivers. So I do keep a decision making journal. Because I want to go back and sort of debrief on what was going on at the time who was involved? That is incredibly helpful, because you cannot change what you do not see. You can't change what you're not aware of. So to become a better decision maker, you have to be aware of your decision making, you know, and then, you know, what was I thinking? What am I feeling? And what were the outcomes and the results of that? And then how do I refine that for the next time? And that's a really practical tip, but it's building awareness about how do I make a decision, and what worked and what was made and how I could have improved it or done differently?

John Ryan 27:17
Such a simple idea yet so important, because decisions are everything, right? We're making decisions all the time, most of them from inertia from what we've done in the past, which you said, is that's one of our bigger threats that we have. So is there a threshold and when you write that decision into the decision journal about like how big it has to be, I could see the big ones for sure, but maybe the little ones should be in there, too.

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 27:42
They should. And the tool that my clients uses is really just a map of decision making map. And they use that map on a regular basis to try to chart out other decisions, they can see oh, you know, here I was like feeling super angry, or very popular one here, I was feeling really guilty. I have when particularly when it comes to whether it keeps keep an employee or not. I have an acronym. It's not originally from me, it's more grateful called emotional blackmail. But it's called fog, fear, obligation and guilt. And a lot of decisions are made from fog. And so a lot of it is helping Clint particularly at the time of COVID, and what to do with your employees and what to do with your business. So and learning how to work through the fog, so that they can make a clear decision and feel really good about a decision even though it's a hard decision.

John Ryan 28:37
You know, the idea of fog kind of connects me back to something you mentioned earlier about the natural boundaries that we used to have prior to remote work. And for some companies, that hasn't changed. But for those of us that have gone remote and haven't been remote before, we don't have those natural boundaries between work life and home life. And I imagine fog could actually come into that as well the fear obligations and guilts that are driving, do I work later? Do I not? How do I blend that? What advice do you have for those that are relatively new to the remote work lifestyle in terms of setting that boundary and, and maintaining their wellness in a workplace integration? Like you mentioned?

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 29:16
Yeah, by the way, I love the integration cuz that's actually what it really comes comes down to. And it is really all about boundaries. I love By the way, I love I love the word that's not even my word. It's Dr. Henry cloud, who I totally adore. He's got a great series of books on boundaries, but it is setting physical boundaries, time boundaries, and emotional boundaries. So for instance, something as simple as you know it doing if my husband was home today, there would be boundaries around okay, honey, I'm not available between three and four because I've got you know, a podcast or, you know, I'm doing client work between nine and 12. Let's stop for lunch. And then until we literally try out a schedule So that we can know we can be clear and clear and in agreement on what to expect from each other because boundaries are expectations. And they need to be negotiated based on what the needs are of a family, with children and homeschooling in that. So the key is to talk, frankly and openly, here's what I need, what do you need? What do the kids need? And then how do I chart that in the calendar? A calendar is our best friend. And then how do I chart that? How do I map that out with spaces in the house, like even a room or a corner of the living room, or so you know, boundaries are a lot of different places, emotionally, physically, psychologically, and spiritually.

John Ryan 30:50
I like that. So the boundary and I love the the calendar is such a great way to kind of show understanding and agreement, like we all agree, this is what's happening here. And if your needs are not being met, now speak now or will suffer the consequences a little bit later, in imagine would reduce stress, which is obviously another thing that impacts our overall productivity. You know, in addition to setting boundaries on time and location, like you mentioned, and the physical boundaries that we can set up in our world to demark. When we're at work, or when we're at work at home, what other ideas or strategies to do often kind of turn to, to help people reduce the overwhelm and stress to manage their wellness.

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 31:30
Part of that is learning to detach...and there's a difference between and really understanding the distinction between detachment and a break or detachment. And some people, some people were just having this conversation the other day, because he's got a very, you know, we both own our own businesses, and he travels and he's working on a construction person, and he's building buildings, and we were talking about you, you may be home, but you're still you're still in South Georgia right now. You're not detached, you're physically detached, but you're not mentally and emotionally detached. And there is an important need of health, to learn how to detach now, and to know what your go to detachment is.

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 32:16
Okay. If it's bingeing on Netflix, if it's going out in the woods, if it's everybody's got to have the thing that is right for them. And what's really important for spouse for, for those for kids and for partners at home is respect. The your spouse's technique, it may not be yours. Now, my husband's attachment is golf. With his favorite buddy, I'm all over him going golfing with his favorite buddy, you know, because that is really I see that as honestly, john, as an issue of health for him. You know, because he needs because he can be detached when he's on the golf course. So because he's redirecting is focused on something different. So it's gonna be different for everybody, when you do honor what is unique for the people that we love. And, you know, for example, I have a stepson who's in the Navy, he works in Navy intelligence, and he's an introvert. And so you know, he's been practicing for, you know, social distancing his whole life, you know, and he's loving it. However, he does a lot. He's what he's responsible for 200 sailors, and he needs to practice detachment. And so for him, it really is going to his workshop downstairs. That's his form of detachment, you know, so everybody's gonna have their unique thing. And please don't judge someone else's thing. Let them have it. No, it's theirs respected, and let them have it. But detachment is key.

John Ryan 33:48
So you know, it's interesting to connect the detachment and make sure I'm getting the sense of what you're communicating. You know, I get it in that context, because you have to learn how to leave work at work. If he's still or you're still in South Georgia and you're not here at home, then you're not really here at home, and we're not having that time to invest in that relationship. And same thing with your nephew. He's got to find that internal time to get that. It's not like you're detaching from your emotions.

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 34:15
Here's what I call that. I call that gathering back your emotions. Okay, like regrouping. Because if you can't, if you can't detach, your emotion is still attached over here. So when you detach you are regathering recentering recapturing, taking all the pieces of yourself that you've put out in the day to your spouse, your kids, your colleagues, your clients, you know, those you're serving your community, your church, there are times you have to gather all yourself back for restoration, for for restoring for peace for you've got to gather that back or that if you Don't do that consistently, you will be burnout. Okay,

John Ryan 35:05
Thank you. I think that helps to clarify because then, and I thought there was a connection there. And I think what you're telling me is that you're, you're gathering back your emotions because you're going to use them in your work for creativity for decision making. And if you don't give yourself that break, then you're going to be deflated and burned out. And then your decision making and your productivity and your ability to connect and create trust also goes down and in response to that, too,

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 35:27
right? And so you might want to even frame it as detachment is recollecting yourself. You know, collecting yourself from all the places you've put yourself out to gathering yourself back together, recollecting all of you to go Okay, I'm all back here. I'm All together now. And I'm now getting restored recollect so that you can get restored, rebooted, so that you can then just then disperse yourself again, as you're doing the activities every day.

John Ryan 35:56
It all comes together. So rest and activity, Yin Yang, left brain, right brain, spiritual, mental, emotional work life balance integration. Fantastic. I'm so excited. Thank you so much for coming on the show. You know, last question is how can our listeners get in touch with you and find out more about work with you and of course, your work?

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 36:14
sure that you just did. The first place to go is really just to my website, JoAnnCorley.com or manage global solutions. I'm also on YouTube. And I have a podcast on iTunes called spark management. I'm also a LinkedIn learning author. And so a couple of my LinkedIn courses are on LinkedIn as well. You can find me there under JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf. So I'm in Twitter. I'm pretty active on Twitter, too. So you can just if you google me, you'll be able to find me as well.

John Ryan 36:42
Wonderful. Thank you so much. I'll put all that in the show notes. And again, JoAnn, thanks so much for being on the show.

JoAnn Corley-Schwarzkopf 36:47
Thank you so much, john. It was an It was a pleasure and a joy.

John Ryan 36:50
Excellent. And for all of you listening. Thanks so much for being here and listening and watching. Until next time, develop yourself, empower others and lead by example. Thanks for listening to key conversations for leaders with your host john Ryan. If you enjoyed the show, please let us know. Give us a rating or write a review. And if you'd like to connect with me and other like-minded leaders, I invite you to join our Facebook group called Develop, Empower and Lead where I deliver free live training every week. If you go to www.developempowerlead.com It will redirect you right there. Hope to see you there soon.