The Power of Appreciation in Increasing Performance and Engagement with Dr. Paul White

Dr. Paul White is a psychologist, author, speaker, and consultant who makes work relationships work. He has written articles for and been interviewed by Bloomberg’s Business Week, CNN/,, Fast Company, and many more.

He is the coauthor of three books including, The 5 Languages of Appreciation in the Workplace written with Dr. Gary Chapman (author of the #1 NY Times bestseller, The 5 Love Languages).


Websites: &

LinkedIn: Paul White, Ph.D.

Twitter: @drpaulwhite

Books: Amazon

Inside This Episode

  • Conflicting Realities at Work
  • Appreciation Language vs. Love Language
  • The Link Between Appreciation & Engagement
  • Why Appreciation Goes Beyond Recognition
  • Investing In the Long-Term Employee Relationship
  • The #1 Feedback People DON’T Want to Hear
  • Why People May NOT Want You to Speak Their Appreciation Language
  • The Most Common Appreciation Languages
  • A Simple Strategy to Create Team Connections Remotely
  • Why Investing In Relationships Can Increase Effectiveness
  • The Pervasive Problem of Miscommunication
  • How to Create Meaningful Investments In Your Employees
  • The Key to Getting Started in Creating a Culture of Appreciation
  • How Getting a Clear Idea Of Where You Are Can Change Your Future
  • The Power of Appreciation in Increasing Performance and Engagement

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John Ryan
You're listening to key conversations for leaders. This is episode number 34. Welcome everybody. In today's episode, we'll be talking about the power of appreciation and increasing performance and engagement. We'll be covering the link between appreciation and engagement. Why appreciation goes beyond recognition. And the number one feedback people don't want to hear and much, much more.

John Ryan 0:24
Leadership is about vision. It's about creating a vision and sharing that vision with others in a way that inspires them to walk with you, or its fulfillment. Along the way, leaders encourage motivate, guide and even challenged people to bring their best each and every day. And it's all done through conversations. That's what this show is about better conversations for better leaders, everybody, and welcome to key conversations for leaders. I'm your host, Sean Ryan. And today we're very special guest Dr. Paul white. Dr. Paul is a psychologist, author, speaker and consultant who makes work relationships work. He has written articles for and been interviewed by Bloomberg, Bloomberg Businessweek, CNN, fortune, calm,, Fast Company, and many, many more. He is the co author of three books, including the five languages of appreciation in the workplace, written with Dr. Carrie Chapman, author of the number one New York Times bestseller, the five love languages. And we are certainly happy to have him here today. Thank you so much for being here. Dr. Paul,

Paul White 1:23
You bet. I'm glad to be with you, john.

John Ryan 1:25
You know, I wanted to ask you, you named your company appreciation at work. Clearly, this is a passion for you. What was it that drew you to this topic?

Unknown Speaker 1:36
Well, you know, I'm a psychologist by training. And I grew up in the context of a family owned business outside of Kansas City. And so sort of have a unique perspective that way, and wound up going into consulting with family owned businesses and dealing with the family issues that are intertwined, and largely around business succession kinds of things. And it was in that work that I saw that often. At that point, dad, and CEO and son or daughter, and you know, next gen or not connecting. And in fact, I had a situation where I asked the dad, I said, you know, how's the plan going? He says, It's going well, I think my son step enough, it's gonna be fine. I walk across the hall as the son and he says, this is a disaster, it's never going to work, can I replace my dad, and so did some investigation. And at that point, this is about 10 years ago, or more and found out you know, there's a lot of emphasis on employee recognition, but it clearly wasn't working. And so wanted to find out why and what we could do about it. And so my wife and I had been impacted by the five love languages. So I pursued Dr. Chapman for a year, and finally got to meet with them. And it's pitched the idea. And then we work together on applying the concepts to work based relationships.

John Ryan 2:55
That's very, very exciting. And I come from a family business background as well. And is that different? And I want to come back and talk about the Five Love Languages of appreciation at work, as well. Is it different when it's a family business? and having that recognition? Because of the history? Or can we assume it's the same?

Paul White 3:14
Yeah, that's a great question. Well, it sort of depends what hat you're wearing, right? When you communicate, because if it's, you know, Father, or mother and son or daughter, you know, and it's that relationship in May, you may, the five love languages, which are developed for personal relationships would seem to fit in. Whereas if it's, you know, in a business kind of setting and interaction, the five languages of appreciation would fit more in what's interesting. I mean, they're the same name, but they look different, in how they're applied. And so we've actually done a little research and found out that, you know, a person's love language is not necessarily their primary appreciation language in the workplace. So it, you know, it makes a difference.

John Ryan 3:57
So, maybe, and in the personal relationship, it could be the physical touch, but not so much necessarily come Well, I mean, you can have a pat on the shoulder as well. But maybe words of appreciation might be a better way to go in the workplace. That makes sense. What do you find is the link between, you know, appreciation, recognition and employee performance and engagement? Well,

Unknown Speaker 4:21
Clearly, I mean, the Gallup organization that, you know, interviewed and surveyed over a million people worldwide found that appreciation as opposed to recognition, we can differentiate those in a minute. But appreciation is one of the top four factors of employee engagement. And it's actually often the one that's most difficult for organizations and leaders to change because you can, you know, involve people in decisions and improve your communication style, but until recently, they've had a hard time figuring out how to make people feel valued and appreciated because it was more fun. focused on performance, which is okay. But so so appreciation of the key factor and it can make a big difference. And all those things that we know employee engagement changes, as far as, you know, staff turnover, and improving customer service ratings and jobs, job satisfaction all accounts.

John Ryan 5:22
Would you mind sharing this the difference? Because I mentioned a lot of managers think, well, I recognize my employees all the time. Is that appreciation?

Unknown Speaker 5:29
Yeah, well, it could be that they overlap for sure. But recognition largely is about performance, right. And that's what it was designed to be. And it works well, when it's designed and implemented consistently, to reward and call attention to, you know, somebody has done a good job, and maybe above and beyond even, or that they've reached goals. And so recognition is about getting the job done. appreciation, we believe in, we really talk about authentic appreciation is about the person. It's that because we're people, right? We're not just employees, we're not just work units. And yet a lot of employees feel like the sole focus is just on production, and they only hear something positive, if they've met or exceeded their goals. And yet, you know, life intertwines with work, as we know, now more than ever, and so if we ignore the life aspect, and the person aspect, we're really missing a lot of who that person is. And, and one of the things I mean, appreciation, recognition, dovetail together well, that if you have a good, you know, performance based recognition program, but but you need to fill in the gaps, because recognition does not make people feel individually valued. And it wasn't designed to but, you know, sometimes there are periods in our life where we're not at the top of our game. You know, I had twins, early in my career, sleep deprivation, the max, you know, I was not the best, you know, counselor at that point in time, you know, and so did I need to be recognized for performance. Now, I just needed support as a person, you know, and, and a little bit of encouragement. And the same thing, we have people. In fact, we know that recognition, only top touches about the top 10 to 15% of our work group.

Unknown Speaker 7:20
And usually it's the same people, right, there's sort of the stores. And so that leaves a big 50 to 60% of solid people, they're good people, they're working hard, they're just not, you know, your stores, and they don't hear anything. And so one important statistic, as we know that 79% of people who leave work voluntarily they quit their job site, a lack of appreciation is one of the key factors for them leaving, and so you put this big group at risk for checking out because they don't ever hear anything, but we can show appreciation for them, sometimes about performance, but it can be about something else. I mean, appreciation can be about a characteristic that we value a person, I like to work with cheerful people more than grumbly people, you know, and so I can show appreciation to somebody for say, you know, Susie, you just got the the coolest smile and laugh as I love to hear you light up the room, you know, is it about performance? No. But does it mean something? Yes. And it helps them feel valued. And in that they're noted as a person?

John Ryan 8:23
I can see, I want to see, is there a correlation between like the recognition and like performance, like doing behavior versus appreciation? And like a beingness? Or the qualities of that person? Like you said, like, lighting up the room? Right.

Paul White 8:38
Right. And, and even I mean, you know, we've done this with, you know, at least hundreds, if not thousands of organizations, where, you know, common issue as well, you know, should you show appreciation to somebody who's not really performing well, well, if you want to keep them, you might, you know, and and that there's some times, you know, we see the ability in future in a person, they're not there now. And so, you can appreciate somebody for something outside of work as well. I mean, you might have a colleague of mine who training for 10 K and said, Man, that's cool that you do. You got the self discipline to do that, you know, I don't have that, or a single mother and you say, and Josephine, or whatever her name might be. So you know, you're so committed to your kids and us love your kids. It's just, you know, it's inspiration to me. And, and so is that about work, is it about them? Yes. Is it going to, you know, create some loyalty and some connectedness for sure. So, yeah, it's, it's more about the person than just getting things done.

John Ryan 9:47
It's a really good point about so am I supposed to appreciate someone if they're not performing, but I suspect if you really step back, well, you can appreciate their effort. You can appreciate their tenacity and there's still showing up and they're doing their Bass even they don't necessarily have those skills. Yeah. And I think there's the other side of a mentor match and people have expressed to you, but I don't want if I appreciate everyone, then then it feels like I'm being authentic. I just say Good job to everyone. It doesn't really mean anything. Yeah. How do you find that balance?

Unknown Speaker 10:15
Well, actually, we we, yeah, I've got 100,000 people on my newsletter list. And we do polls occasionally. And one of the polls we asked is, What don't you like to hear? You know, as far as words, and one of the top responses was, good job, people don't want to hear it. Because it's too vague. It's too general, anybody can say it about anybody else. It doesn't mean anything. And so we really teach, you know, we teach a model of how to be specific with be we use a person's name, you say specifically what they've done that you value and how and why it's important to you or the organization. And the more specific you are, the more likely it's going to be viewed as authentic or genuine, the more vague you are, you're more likely to get into sort of being condemned as just been, you know, going through the motions.

John Ryan 11:01
I think that's a really good point, it goes back to having the technique, the skills, the template, if you will, and then showing up and being authentic. It also sounds like it takes time, like you really, you can't just do the boilerplate, good job, that doesn't add to the relationship, that you have to really pay attention to your employees. And that makes the difference, I imagine.

Unknown Speaker 11:21
Yeah. And actually, I mean, so people often ask, you know, well, how do you know what a person's language of appreciation is, and, you know, we've worked added over time, and in the five love languages, Dr. Chapman talks about, you know, sort of watch what they do to others, and you know, try to do that, that's fine. In personal relationships, you don't have that many data points in the workplace of observing somebody showing appreciation, right? So that doesn't work, obviously, remotely, it's tougher. And also, we found that only about 75% time, which is decent, but do people use the language that they actually want? Okay. But, but more important than that is in the workplace, we found that it's not only the language, but the specific action, that's important because a person may value quality time, which is, you know, spending time with somebody that is important to them.

Unknown Speaker 12:11
But for some people it is getting together or having some personal time, one on one with their supervisor or manager. That's less so that used to be more of the case. But now it's more about getting together with peers and hanging out with their colleagues. And so you could get the language, right and assume, and I tell managers, just because your team member has quality time as their language doesn't mean they want time with you. Okay, so, no, we can't make you baby great. And all that. But I've had people say, and my managers intense, and I'm sort of shy, I don't want to, you know, I don't want time with them. But I want to go to lunch or go out afterwards. And so we developed an online assessment that comes with the book, we've had 250,000 plus people take it, that identifies your primary language, your secondary, your least valued, which is sort of your blind spot, it's the one you don't think about, that you're going to have team members about, and then be able to identify not only the language, but the actions that are specific to each person on your team.

John Ryan 13:10
So and I know you do keynotes in a lot of leadership training, um, walk us through a little bit, if you don't mind. So it sounds like the assessment as part of that, that discussion with an organization. What would you share with our audience? Like, what are the five basic, you know, appreciation languages that exist in the business context? And do they vary? Is there one that's more common than others? Or is it pretty equal across the board?

Unknown Speaker 13:35
Yeah, no, I'll tell you about that. So words of affirmation is actually the most common, it's identified by 46% of the workforce as their primary language. Part of that I think, is enculturation. A part of, it's sort of easy to do. But nonetheless, words and words can be you know, just a personal compliment or a thanks, got to be specific about it. But also it can be written, right, you know, through a text or an email or, you know, a post it note, you leave it on somebody's desk. But the issue is that you need to be specific about what they did and how it impacted you, the organization, your customer, you say, you know, Brian, thanks for getting your report done in on time, to me, that made it easy for me to turn my report around to my supervisor. And so thanks for doing that. And, you know, if you get the action and and the language, right, it doesn't take a lot. It's not like you have to be doing this all the time. It's, it's really sort of hitting the target versus sort of a shotgun approach. So words, one of the things we do know is that going up in front of a large group to be recognized, is not often the way people want. I mean, we have 40 40%, at least, of the general workforce don't want to go up in front of a large group to be recognized. And so that's actually a negative quality time is over. Like I said, either individual time with your supervisor or hanging out with your friends. key part is that it's with people that you want to hang out with, versus they want to hang out with you. And you're not necessarily that interested. But it's 26% of the workforce. So it's second, but clearly less so about one out of every four. And like I said, in the past, it was more related to who you report to your supervisor manager, but now it's more about colleagues and people you like to hang out with that way.

Paul White 15:33
And then acts of service is 22%. So about one out of every five employees, extra service isn't rescuing a, you know, a low performing colleague, it's more the probably the best context is when you're on a time oriented project that you're having to push to get it done. And you know, us, you know, really hammering it, what somebody is something that somebody could do to help make that go better. And that could be, you know, could be bringing in, you know, dinner for you. So you can keep on it, it could be sort of taking care of your daily tasks, so you can focus on the on the project that you're working on. Or it could be that you delegate, part of it, acts of service, a key part is that you need to do it in the way that they want. And at the quality level, they want it one of the reasons that people don't like to hand that off, is they're afraid, it won't get done, you know, in the right way. So but, you know, I had one CEO Tell me, he said, my language is good or done. He said, Don't give me stuff, don't tell me stuff to sell me to get things done. No, you're on my team. And in these people, a lot of times words don't mean much. And, and that you can actually sort of waste Yes, or like words are cheap, you know, that kind of attitude. And so you can waste your time doing stuff that doesn't matter to fourth language is tangible gifts, and tangible gifts is an interesting one, because that's where employee recognition programs focus a lot, you know, on giving things and rewards all that it's not in our model, it's not compensation, it's not bonuses, or whatever. But it's really small things that are showing you getting to know the other person and what they like. So it could be, you know, their favorite kind of coffee, you know, you know, whether that's a pumpkin spice or whatever, or favorite snack, could be maybe something about their sports team, you know, and remotely, you know, we're able to do this as well, but you know, or you send them an article about, you know, maybe a player, you know, that they like, and it's a kind of gift, you know that it's information. And so it but it's only 6% of the population. And and it's interesting, because one, I think a lot of companies waste a lot of money on gifts and rewards that don't impact. But the way that you can make them more impactful is that you combine it with one of the other languages. So if, if they're languages words, you make sure you say something about them, or quality time.

Paul White 17:55
And so that makes us impactful. Because people said, you know, if I never hear anything, if you've ever stopped by to check in, see how I'm doing, if I never getting help when I need it, and yet I get a gift feels pretty superficial. And so that's where that's at. And then physical touch, which is obviously the interesting one in the workplace. And it's largely spontaneous celebration, right? I mean, it's a high five, and we're talking pre COVID days, I'll give an example here in the past but or fist bump, you know, a pat on the back, maybe congratulatory handshake. It seems like a little fist bump is the one that's gonna stay for right now we I've tried out a backhanded five, five, doesn't really work doesn't feel the same. So but the fist bump seems to be out there. And and for some, it's less than one person, percent of the population. But it differs regionally and culturally, right. So we have our materials in Spanish and Portuguese and other languages and for our Latin American friends, you know, physical touches more important. Also in the south, they're more likely to give side effects. I mean, you're in Charlotte, you know, I worked with an organization that they merged New York and Charlotte and these they did not know how to agree. You know, this is culturally is really different. Because in New York, this is what a physical touch is like in New York. Hey, all right. I mean, that's it, right? So sort of from a distance. So that's what's up with those.

John Ryan 19:18
That's awesome. Thank you so much for that, that comprehensive overview and given us the relative percentages, in the end the percentages help but knowing the individual employees what their preferred language for appreciation really is, what matters. You also mentioned, remote work, and I know you just finished or are finishing touches right now on a big research project you're doing on remote work? What are some of the concerns that managers need to really be thinking about in relation to showing appreciation in the context of remote work?

Paul White 19:51
Yeah, actually, we did research a few years ago before the COVID and big working from home movement to look at how people People who work remotely if they differed in how they want to be shown appreciation. And, and it ties into what we've done since about what's going on with working from home employees and what they're concerned about, I think that the biggest practical issue for managers and leaders is that the default kind of communication, when you're working remotely, goes primarily to tasks and work. I mean, you're, you're getting together having a conference call, and you're working on a project or, you know, a budget or whatever. And it's pretty work oriented. And you don't have those sort of informal interactions where you, you know, walk by somebody's office, you stick your head in and say, Hey, how's it going, or you don't run into them the break room or coming in from, you know, the parking lot or winter. And so all those sort of informal conversations about personal stuff about sports, you know, about how their kids are doing what they do over the weekend, there's no sort of automatic space for that. And so it's really important. And, I mean, this is what they say, you know, it's, I'm not just a, you know, a performer, I've got a life, especially working from home, and if, you know, finding out how that's going with the kids, you know, at school and so forth, is really important. So, making space, and it can be as simple as maybe texting or emailing somebody and say, Hey, I'd like to check in for five or 10 minutes, when would be a good time, because one of the things we found is people are reluctant to just do it, because they don't know what the other person's doing. Right. And so they don't want to interrupt him. But if you sort of find out, set up a time and just chat. And a part about that, is that it's important, I think, for leaders to share something about themselves. Otherwise, it feels like interrogation, you know, it's like, oh, would you do this weekend? How are you kids? How's your wife, whatever, versus saying, you know, Hey, I got to go sailing this week is fine, or how about this chiefs? I'm in the Midwest, you know, and so, you know, so you, you offer some of yourself as well, and, and people are more willing to share, versus if you're just, you know, sort of bombarding them with questions.

John Ryan 22:13
That's a really important thing, because I can see how it can be very transactional, task oriented, project oriented, but you're taking that time that sounds like it goes into quality of time, and, and just really spending time with that person, which you don't get if you don't really make the time. So that's a really important point. Thank you. Yeah.

Paul White 22:30
And we, you know, another way to deal with that is to sort of open up a conference call or a zoom call, or whatever ahead of time, and let people get on and chat because that's what happens in real life. people show up a little bit early, some of them and they'll chat for a few minutes, or hang on afterwards, and and catch up as well. So it doesn't have to be Boom, boom, boom, you know, moving on.

John Ryan 22:51
We had a gentleman on the podcast named Faheem, he said, really like conferences, the power of the conference is not just the meetings, it's not the breakouts. It's the watercooler. It's like all the conversations that are happening. So having that meeting ahead of time and opening it up, it sounds like a really great idea to kind of accomplish that task without being in person, which you can always do. Is there a disconnect? Is there any mismatching that you see between, like, right now, what employers are doing managers leaders are doing? And what employees need, especially in this remote work environment that we live in?

Paul White 23:29
Yes, and no, it's sort of it depends on the employer and maybe on the industry, but I find generally speaking, that some more production oriented industries, and companies are focusing on that and talking about efficiencies, and you know, the financial saving of not having to have a, you know, a, you know, an actual office. And, man, if they do not pay attention to the relationship side of it, they're going to have a rude awakening, because within three to six months, people are going to be leaving, and very dissatisfied. And we're already seeing that. And those that are a little bit more relational oriented, and sensitive to the needs of that, and are setting up some, you know, just team meetings just to get together and chat. You know, I mean, sometimes you set up and or, like for us, most of our team is in one place. And so we will actually get together physically once every couple of weeks, just to have that interaction. And I think there's a real risk for the companies that are focused on the efficiencies and the productivity and miss the the personal side of things that things are gonna fall apart for.

John Ryan 24:47
So this is a key ingredient. It's not just about having the people and having the assets. It's really about the relationships and if you don't build appreciation, recognition, acknowledgement of the people that are involved. It sounds like the company's potentially going to fall apart to some degree.

Paul White 25:04
Well think about how difficult communication is when we when we meet with one another. And, you know, I mean, there's miscommunication that happens all the time, if you take out a key aspect of either availability or being able to see and sort of read people's nonverbals you know, miscommunication is going to increase, which leads to poor decisions, or bad implementation or misunderstandings, which relates to conflict and tension, which then decreases communication. I mean, it just becomes a negative snowball that we're gonna have to sort of watch out for

John Ryan 25:41
When you think about the frequency that managers are meeting with employees and having these conversations, Is there ever a point where it's too much? Or is there an ideal frequency about?

Unknown Speaker 25:52
Well, yeah, is there too much? Yeah. I mean, if you're interfering with their ability to get their work done, right. But I've never heard anybody complain about feeling appreciated too much, right? I mean, so that I don't think that's a worry, I, you know, I have people say, well, they're gonna become satiated, and all that, it's like, that can be true for rewards, because the reward loses its impact in meaning. But I think when you have a personal relationship, I think it's, it's pretty rare, if ever that that happens, it's really part largely a factor of your relationship, who they are, some people need more encouragement than others. But I think if you are focusing on communicating in a way that's meaningful to them, that you're going to hit the target, you're going to now you're good to go. The problem is, when people just do the shotgun approach, we're gonna send emails and you know, thank you cards to everybody. And we're going to stop by and see everybody there, a lot of people say, you know, I do not want you to stop by and see me. I mean, so we got it, we got to do what's important for each person.

John Ryan 27:01
It sounds to me like rewards that might have diminishing returns, when you do that blanket. Good job. That's where you're gonna have diminishing return as well. But I think you're saying if you really spend the time and deliver it in the way, for example, that you teach with specificity with contacts and impact, using their name and having that heart to heart, that that's going to be welcome. Because I agree, the research shows that people are not connecting with their bosses, they're afraid to talk. And there's a relationship breakdown. That's, that's there. What would you say to a manager that that is out of practice, and maybe has some anxiety or apprehension about instituting this for fear of being inauthentic?

Unknown Speaker 27:39
Yeah, well, it's a reasonable fear. And I've had some people say, well, that's the first positive thing I've heard guy's mouth in five years, you know, am I supposed to believe it? And so I think the trick is this or, you know, the step is to start somewhere with somebody, you know, a lot of, you know, I work with computer scientists and engineers, and regular engineers, and they want to do a spreadsheet and get it all planned out. And then they never actually get to implement it. So It usually starts somewhere with somebody start with words, because that's the easiest, if you're a little bit shy, or, you know, uncomfortable, personally, you know, write it, I mean, email or text, that way, you can sort of, you know, word it correctly, and send it when you want. And, sometimes, I mean, I talked to people about sort of three groups to look for either, to start with, as far as one is just your right hand person that you know, it just pretty easy, you know what you value about them, it'd be pretty easy just to do it.

Unknown Speaker 28:39
And that's an easy win for you. Secondly, if you got a really key team member, you don't want to lose, you better, make sure you're doing something pretty soon because they're on the trading block. And then third, to somebody that's discouraged, right, that they need some encouragement and encouragement. And appreciation are largely the same action, but their focus of time is different appreciations about the past about what we appreciate value that what they've done. encouragement is the present of the future that we're coming alongside while they're working on a challenging project and keep hitting obstacles and say, Man, hang in there, you're doing a good job. And I really saw how you, you know, you asked for help and got help, you know, and so, start there. And you'll see that it actually you get some pretty positive feedback fairly quickly, and it's rewarding and encouraging to continue.

John Ryan 29:27
What's been the most rewarding thing for you in doing this work?

Unknown Speaker 29:34
You know, it's, it's fascinating to me, so, you know, we've sold over 500,000 books, you know, which is sick. You know, 250,000 people to argue and take our inventory. We have over 900 certified trainers, we've developed an online training the trainer process, that individuals within organization can take and then take their team through and just the fact that it continues to grow and spread word of mouth is really encouraging To me, so it means that there's some value there. And, and so that's fun and to be able to hear individual stories that come out, we have a mining group in South Dakota and Wyoming Colorado that, you know, their hard hat guys, the summit truckers in and in the miners, they they wouldn't we have little icons of each language and they wanted stickers to put on their helmets, you know, and so just little things like that. But it's like, I got it, and they like it. So that's fun.

John Ryan 30:31
I really appreciate that. That's, that's very, very powerful. You know, it seems to me, as we're talking here that really some of these are words, right. Some of these are written some of these are acts of service and other things to get that appreciation across. It's really about a conversation, you know, in this podcast is about conversations, just kind of wondering, when you think back in your life, what was one of the most significant if you can remember, conversations that you've had, where maybe you felt appreciated or inspired that has shaped you and kind of led you to where you are right now.

Paul White 31:04
Yeah, you know, this isn't a singular one. But professionally, what I one of the things I've done over time, as I evaluate students have learning difficulties, so ADHD, and dyslexia and all that. And I've evaluated on 4000 plus students over the years and to run into somebody at some kind of event, it could be the grocery store, or you know, soccer game or something. And they'll they'll introduce themselves, because I might remember the face or not remember the name of the say, you know, I just want to let you know how much that when you did the evaluation and helped us figure out our student and gave us a pathway to go, that changed the course of their life and how we understood them. And so, you know, that, that keeps me going on that. And the same thing when dealing with families and businesses. I mean, I had one organization that said, Man, you've changed our culture, you know, and we are functioning so much better. And I think that's an important message to managers is that this is not just about making people feel good. I mean, that's nice. But it really made the goal is to help the organization function better, where you have less turnover, less conflict, better productivity. People, there's just a positive energy that goes and helps you get things done. Customers sense it and and feel it. And so it's don't get hung up on the feeling aspect. It's more about let's help people relate together and work together well, so that we get the job done that we want to.

John Ryan 32:38
Fantastic. Dr. Paul, what's the best way for people to find out more about your work and stay connected?

Paul White 32:45
Yeah, so our sort of mothership website is appreciation at work calm, and it's a word at so appreciation at work calm. Or you can just google me, I'm pretty easy find Dr. Paul white and put appreciation in there. We have a blog that we put out weekly that gives information about all this, and a bunch of free videos and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, I would encourage them to take a look. And we give a code for taking the inventory. With the book. You also can just buy groups of codes for people, not everybody's going to want to read the book, you know, and so we can do that we have a remote version. That's the actions are specific for long distance kinds of acts and words and so forth, and actually even created a virtual training process that people can do via video conference. So appreciation is where it's at.

John Ryan 33:38
Fantastic. Thanks so much. I'll put all those links in the show notes. Again, Dr. Paul white, thank you so much for being here.

Paul White 33:42
You bet John. Thanks for having me.

John Ryan 33:45
And for those who are watching until next time, develop yourself, empower others and lead by example. Thanks for listening to key conversations for leaders with your host john Ryan. If you enjoyed the show, please let us know. Give us a rating or write a review. For more tools to engage, inspire and empower yourself and others. Visit if you haven't already, you can connect with me on twitter @keyconvo and on LinkedIn under John Ryan Leadership.

John Ryan

Host of Key Conversations for Leaders Podcast, Executive Coach, Consultant, and Trainer

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